Markos Moulitsas: Time is up
Since Markos Moulitsas has refused to apologize for his Kos Kops and the damage they have done to other users, I will have to pursue other means. I’m a patient person up to a point. When I don’t get any response, then I move up to a higher level.
He had every opportunity to come to this blog and apologize, but he’s hiding under his desk. And he won’t be the only one who will be forced to apologize.
What will I do? I won't say. I want them shaking in their boots. But if they think I'm bluffing, they are 1,000 per cent wrong. Dave knew what I'm capable of, especially with the connections I have.
More to come.
It stikes me that Kos is the kind of guy who will not deal with the issue head on.
He will either just go run off and hide or offer up 2 or 3 excuses for why things that go on at his website are out of his control. He sets up the website but then turns around and makes like once its up there is nothing he can do about it.
Considering the cast of characters he has harbored over the last three years, it really should not surprise anyone that Kos is taken less and less seriously for political commentary.
Obama wrote him off sometime in the last two years. And now that it is the Obama Administration, well, there you go.
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I thought DFQ made a mistake by not taking his evidence to the rw blogs, Moulitsas will never apologize to the left.
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I think there is some merit to what you write, in that the enemy of one's enemy can be an ally.
But Dave couldn't do that, for he was sincere to the core. If he'd gone to Free Republic or one of those types, the only thing of value would have been that others could have helped him with the investigating.
Nonetheless, it just wasn't in Dave's character to communicate with rightwingers.
I believe that Dave got snookered by the bait and switch of the FreeSpeechZoneBlog. I think that not only are there gatekeepers, but also gatekeepers for gatecrashers.
For example, say one gets banned by Democratic Underground. They may end up at the Progressive Independent. They may then spend plenty o'time there thinking they have finally found a progressive alternative to the "Al From" dominated DU. But then they will eventually find out that Tinoire of PI is a big fan of Ron Paul and Michael Rivero. Thus, they will end up seeing that the alternative has been a fake one. Then they might find other alternatives that on the surface seem legit. But more likely than not, the same disappointments will keep occuring.
My gut instinct tells me that MajorFlaw, Bottles, et al are operating the FSZ. The thing that set Dave apart from the other so-called UGOG critics was that he wasn't afraid to get beyond Mickey Mouse blog wars between anonymous usernames.
Dave was starting to understand that real life lawyers and political consultants are in control of the "progressive" zeitgeist, that they are anything but real Democrats.
Dave could see how democratic processes were being perverted. Unfortunately, he spent a bunch of time at the FSZ which only fed into the way the big picture is now being distorted. That the gatekeeping FSZ deleted most of his work and continues to portray him as someone who had asperger syndrome or was obsessed andout for revenge tells me that Dave figured out a whole lot more than has yet to be revealed. If he hadn't, then I don't think we'd be seeing all the spin control efforts to "tidy" everything up. Kos himself posted 24 times on Dave's final diary. In the "meta" diaries written after he died, many front pagers and concern trolls came out of the woodwork to make sure the big picture would not be explained at Daily Kos. Same with FSZ. It is now on the few who see the big picture to make sure Dave's true legacy is known.
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You dont know the history of DFQ at FSZ. Until you do I would avoid making pronouncements like "MajorFlaw, Bottles, et al are operating the FSZ"
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Uhm, I didn't make a pronouncement. This is what I wrote:
"My gut instinct tells me that MajorFlaw, Bottles, et al are operating the FSZ."
I can probably track down the quote from Jack's Smirking Chimp which has me wondering this. I think I saved the page.
To paraphrase what I remember, Jack said something about how MajorFlaw and the others were regular guys, that DFQ shouldn't have outed them. That to me reeked of gatekeeping 101. MajorFlaw and Bottles were busted running an astroturfing unit. Kos admins and Kos himself have been shown to have allowed it to fester. They all deserve to be outed and investigated.
Also, it's quite telling that a place that professes to be about free speech would delete so much. Why didn't Jack simply delete the posts outing "real life" information? Why ban Dave and not give him a chance to post according to FSZ's rules?
Even if this Jack dude is just in over his head or whatever, there are posters at that place who reek of being MajorFlaw, Bottles, Trashablanca et al.
Since you seem to know so much, maybe you could share some thoughts. Or is enigma the name of the game? Nothing to see here, move along?
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oops-
Jack's Smirking Revenge is his name.
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As i said, since you clearly dont know the history involved you shouldnt be making pronouncements. DFQ asked jack to delete all his stuff.
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DFQ asked for every post and whole threads to be deleted? Prove it!
Is it your job to write cryptic posts containing two sentences? Is that the formula for Mr. Local Character of Note? Are you part of the crowd that antagonizes Susan Something?
People can go to MyLeftWing and read diaries by 'Noom'. This guy Jack is bad news. The FreeSpeechZoneBlog is a gutter website.
Why are you running interference for Lachow, Fingerit, and their buddy Jack's Smirking Revenge?
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I'm not running interference, I'm attempting to set you straight on what really happened. Clearly you would rather live in your fantasy world so I wont bother with you further.
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What happened then?
You have added nothing to figuring out anything.
Who are you at these places? Speak up. Your posts appear to be Major{ly} Flaw{ed}.
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Well I was there and Dave got swamped as usual. Also the linguistics of certain posters at FSZ are very similar to the Tr raters at dkos. I am quite sure I would expose myself immediately were I to go anywhere as a sock puppet. My linguistic utterances are very much mine. No one else writes the same. Of course, being a good writer, I could employ a different persona and play games. It would be tedious, but challenging were I to do that. But it's not the way I want to spend my time. I know it must be hard for you to be without your d0nuts and your pals HRing, but your voice is also unique and I can make a good guess as to who you are. But I won't. But I am reading you so maybe you better change your ID sometimes to fake it.
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Hi Abbey,
Part of me feels it was Peeder's plan the whole time to round up the best of the Kos critics and then eventually disperse them into the blogospheric stratosphere.
Karen S. doesn't sound like a real woman. I don't trust Pager, Kestrel, Deedog, or many others. Jack, too, is wound up too tight as an anarchist, pothead, New Age, metalhead, future political operative like Alexandrovna is with her reporting and blogging.
I think this is all about controlling freedom of speech and association. It's no coincidence that the best and brightest are gone from FSZ and the worst have remained.
They played on Dave's newness to realising the internet is at a minimum gamed, and everywhere. All these types of joints are established to contain any rebels.
Maybe we should put together a top 25 censored blogosphere story. #1 would have to be the UGOGs. #2 could be the Speedway Bomber running hoaxes to garner big donations.
I thought Hal Turner being exposed as an FBI informant was huge. Fingerit/Lachow makes Turner seem like run of the mill disinfo. That the UGOGs ran DailyKos with the approval of the admins is mind boggling.
Well, I read MyLeftWing threads by DonkeyTale and Noom. And even though both of them seem annoying, they seem honest.
So it looks like Jack made up some nonsense about one guy faking political flesh feast usernames. One allegedly threatened him. But the story seems to fall apart, that Jack is either very obnoxious and smoking some serious weed, or he is part and parcel of all the disinfo and has simply taken over as another gatekeeper.
FSZ is ruined. Jack is either incompetent or a plant. He changes people's usernames.
They're trying to make the few of us feel insignificant. But they are just like the big bad wolf huffing and puffing.
I have it saved somewhere. Jack gave props to Fingerit. I think he even mentioned the word patsy, as in Dave?
These disinfo dorks know we are overwhelmed with the data, most of it rabbit hole material, with it tough to find the nuggets. Plus, they know we are only a few. They like to put out fires before they start.
Any idea why Jack hasn't deleted the pdf? Is it because he knows a lot of people have already copied it? Michael Bouldin showed up on that.
Which brings us to the new UGOG local character of note plan. MajorFlaw has been putting the final touches on outing browneyes. That kills two birds with one stone. It makes them look like petty trollbusters, since they were already exposed, and not like cointelpro or cointelpro-like.
This also makes Number5 look like he is one of them, as he's the one who first pushed the idea that Browneyes was a character construction. I think number5 is legit, but I think he hasn't figured out yet that Jack might be a plant. Or darn it, Number5 is the greatest concern troll of all time. I hope not. I like him.
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This could be a lead or a rabbit hole for those into this meta troll researching.
Someone at FSZ said that Lauren S. was tlh lib at DailyKos. I am thinking Lauren S. might be MajorFlaw.
I'll copy and paste one post from the following old Kos thread where tlh lib was trolling just like a UGOG.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/20/0395/66766/111/292803
edrie: "i don't think this is as much about whether a diarist is wrong, but it is more about piling on troll ratings and having members discuss kicking in the "autoban" (as happened tonite in his diary). THAT is what i found particularly offensive.
there always seems to be the same names trolling specific posters - which drives me to question: do people feed on other people when it comes to trolling - are these REALLY independent views or affirmation of another person's opinion.
the discussion tonite on "triggering autobanning" was what i found particularly disturbing.
i often wonder if people who so quickly join in trolling specific users are looking for that user to troll - otherwise, how do the same people turn up so quickly to downrate?"
That was from January 19th, 2007. If you read between the lines and find such nuggets, the whole convoluted internet starts to come into focus as the confidence game it is.
Dave was a hero.
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That's exactly what I discovered on my own when they came after me. I then learned that they go directly to search and find out where the action is. And of course then they are all there. The only ones who knew this for well over a year were the victim and the aggressor and all the rest on the thread were innocent. Or they fell in with them without understanding, at least for a little while. There were very few confronting them when you needed help. I went to MLW right after and got dumped on by Mary Scott for confronting dadanation there and she defended him (or her). Bluevertigo was especially vicious but that name has disappeared and who knows what it has morphed into, but she is still there. Sometimes when searching out my killers I would find one of them just talking about themselves, their life, stuff like that when they weren't hunting.
Anyway this is what my hard drive is full of but right now my personal life is swamping me so I must focus on that. But I will not forget Dave. What amazes me is that I was one of the very few who supported him openly. It wasn't hard at all so why did no one else? What could these people possibly be afraid of? Or don't they care? Why can't they see as clearly as I do? I'm no genius but I try to be conscious.
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It looks like we've found a safe haven to work stuff out.
I've wondered the same thing. Why don't more speak out? And yeah, this isn't rocket science. Can folks not get the general gist of how the internet is a vast confidence game?
Idon't see how this story can be spun as tinfoil.
There's yourself and Susan Something who seem legit.
Part of "their" plan is to make us not trust anyone. I refuse that route.
Part of their plan is to shame us, make us appear as paranoid or mentally imbalanced. Shame us, and then 100,000 lurkers shy away from trying.
Good luck with your real life stuff. You're a hero for speaking out. Good job.
Dadanation is Mike Shriver, part of the UGOG's. No need to check out this link really. Just the proof.
http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=78
"hey mike.
having now read your post and the dropping of the alias, i guess i am having "no-more-alias" envy, which i am sure i can have addressed in therapy which will, sadly, not compensate for me using my 'dadanation" moniker here... the cycle cycles...
mike shriver. live in sf. used to be the aids czar for our former mayor, did a lot of public health (hiv, std, substance abuse, mental health, queer, youth stuff)advocacy/lobbying at the federal level before i went out on disabilty.
nice to be here on the msoc site. very nice indeed."
More than we needed to know? He should make sure to put UGOG on his resume. I'm sure the FBI would probably be impressed.
Michael Bouldin- another UGOG.
I found the thread you mentioned.
http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=19426
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Then he or she continued:
"just the TALK of 'invoking autoban' ... the piling on and screeching "TROLL" at every turn and then the "AUTOBAN" threat (and, YES, it IS a threat) is what turned the diary ugly.
people who feel threatened often say and do stupid things - and his attack on you was, quite frankly, stupid. but this guy has been under constant attack for over a week - maybe two - now, and if he's going through some defensive mechanism or stress, i can cut him some slack.
there appears to be a howling pack of troll hunters on the loose in here and it is generating a huge amount of paranoia. not good for a progressive site - more reminescint of the "quick to ban" right wing sites.
it is ugly and it offends those of us who can either read or walk away from opinions we disagree with - but who will defend forever the RIGHT of OTHERS to hold those opinions and defend them."
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I Stumbled across another strange username from DKos.
lrbreckenripple
I think he signed up around August 2008 and made one diary and got banned on November 17th, 2008.
http://lrbreckenripple.dailykos.com/
The person made over 4,000 posts in 3 or 4 months. Though plenty of them were one sentence chit chat.
If you check out the diary, the person is said over and over again to have been Dave.
But he wasn't.
It was either Noom or DonkeyTale, imho.
I believe there is controlled opposition.
The UGOG's were planned on being revealed eventually. One can see that in the pdf.
The monkey wrench thrown into the script was Dave. He was into authentic social change, not astroturfing. He was trying to be an activist through the internet.
Michael Bouldin {MBNYC} called him fat and other mean things in the thread. Again, so many kept repeating that this was Dave. No one supplied proof.
I've seen this thing before. I've experienced it. It's too sophisticated, in my humble opinion, to not be paid activity.
The key to this is sock puppetry. Fingerit, Lachow, and others made 100s of accounts or whatever was needed. Then they set out to get mojo and trusted user privileges.
The more sock puppets with power, the easier it is to game the ratings system without arousing suspicion.
But they also had the admins in their back pockets. They could get someone instantly banned with one email to Barb, Scout Finch et al.
No way Dave was lrbreckenripple.
That person was working this as a job. Their plan was to create and introduce this "blog war" between the UGOGs and FSZ.
Dave was living in reality, not any of them. Dave was up against cheaters.
There are convoluted, astroturfing, disinfo units working over the major, progressive boards.
As Prepostericity, I turned into a "player" according to one jounalist a few months back when I confronted Larisa Alexandrovna, Brett Kimberlin, and Brad Friedman. The grapevine informed me that a jailhouse lawyer with a dubious history was thinking that a well-known writer was the inspiration behind my emergence. The grapevine told me that a lawsuit was in the works.
But it never arrived. As the famous journalist told me in an email, no one can be sued for libel or slander when it's the truth.
It's very sad that Dave died. Yet, I think he would have wanted us to continue on with exposing the astroturfing phenomenon.
The UGOG's were not a small group of people caught up in a rabbit hole full of anonymous usernames. That is the cover story. They were fully sanctioned by the Daily Kos administration.
This story has been figured out. Despite how much the cheaters continue to distort and obfuscate, the truth continue to rise to the surface.
That person never
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Don't you think dkos is wasting away at this point? I hardly go there anymore and it has been 5 years of constant reading at least for me. I am bored with it. I think others probably are also. I am sure there are good diaries I am missing but there are good books I am not reading.
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For sure it is. Now that folks are aware of the Kos Kops and how many were manipulated to click pages based on "state sponsored" trolling, there is no reason to read there at all.
The good diaries will show up in search engines for subjects we are interested in. So ultimately no worries on missing out on anything.
I've put up a lot of screenshots from the UGOG pdf and other related pages. I want newbies and fence-sitters to understand that this story is not an enigma. Don't believe any of the propaganda that only the few insiders who have been "involved" with this know what happened. Au contraire. An extensive astroturfing unit full of fake progressives operating out of DailyKos, FreeSpeechZoneBlog, and the UGOGs has been fully exposed. Most importantly, such corruption, such tampering with freedoms of speech and association have been shown to derive from the Kos administration and Markos Zuniga himself. May DailyKos and their ilk continue with their inevitable fall to the bottom of the heap as they wallow in the realisation that their script has been busted wide open. Years and years of the few good folks has finally paid off. Dave was the one to finally hammer that nail into the utterly disgraceful Daily Kos.
http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/daily-kos-lies-a-retraction-and-more-on-brett-brad-t338.html
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Wow! I cannot say any more about all your research and dot connecting. Now how do I write a diary here on DFQ? And has this site been secured without Dave's input? Or do I need to start my blog?
Help please.
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Hi abbeysbooks,
On the left side of the main page is the contact address for Antoinette. I guess if you have any questions, email her for guidance.
I have had my own existential journey on the internet. I've always had a deep fascination with how much it is actually being manipulated.
The problem, in a nutshell, seems to be that sincere people are being isolated and pushed away, if they don't comply with the groupthink or threaten the blogospheric status quo too much. I have lurked FSZ a bit lately. They are painting me as being a paranoid conspiracy theorist. I swear to God I'm not.
You and others are welcomed to join my humble blog/forum. I don't mind cross-posts. I think it's best for us to get our good stuff at as many places as possible, since so much is vulnerable to scrubbing and pruning.
When good people work together, there is no limit to what can be accomplished. We do need people to watch our backs, to help us correct inevitable mistakes that humans make.
Also, one needn't believe in "chemtrails" to join. And I make no apologies for thinking that deliberate white-outs are taking place. But the difference with a few of us who joined forces starting back in 2006 is that we don't adhere to the crazy theories which dominate the internet. I believe that the rationales behind the dispersals are to block out uv-b rays and to attempt to rein in the consequences of climate change. I've tried my best to take an academic approach to the subject.
Basically, the reward for such an approach has led to myself being cyberstalked. Though, I am not scared and will continue to fight for our rights for authentic freedom of speech and association.
Take care, socrates
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You and anyone else who wants to express themselves should start a blog. Places seem to be set up to zone the disenchanted. A place like FSZ at first seems like a godsend for anyone who has had a bad experience with DailyKos.
The people over there won't shut up about me. If I'm such a ridiculous person, why bother? Am I Kathaksung? Point out what crazy things I have mentioned. I was trying to be funny as M&NYC, but now I just have a bad taste in my mouth.
Jack doesn't add up. He praised Fingerit. They all cover his tracks as if the UGOGs were a hobby and an enigma. There's no analysis. No names are ever mentioned, even Bouldin's. So much has been scrubbed and pruned.
There are a few people who seem to make sense. HowardX seems to be a good guy. Susan Something seems for real. But anyone who has anything good to say gets shouted down or ridiculed.
I was almost gonna gived the place another chance, but I just can't. Better to be on one's own and have dignity than to ignore blatant contradictions just because there appears to be some traffic.
I only cared about that place to try to figure out the meta stuff. It's like the fundamental difference between Dave and the UGOGs at the end of Dave's posting at DKos. All of them were right there in the thick of what was some sort of battle, but unlike the paid trolls, Dave came up with some good diaries. Dave understood the idea that trolls need to be bashed, but then one needs to get back on topic.
And how in the heck could anyone attack Dave's Long Island diary, the one that led to Barbara, Clawson, and other admins declawing Dave's ability to trollbust while ensuring that Fingerit and Lachow were the victors?
It's tough not to despise all of those power people at DailyKos. They are clearly not progressives. They are the reason we are still in Iraq, that the economy is skewed for the rich, that nothing ever gets any better. I would even vote for a decent Republican, if one exists, I know, odds unlikely, over any fake Democrat the likes of which dominate the Daily Kos. Isn't Scooter Libby a Democrat?
I never fell for Kos. But I can relate to how ye did. Everyone wants to be a part of something bigger than themselves.
I'm saddened that the Free Speech Zone Blog is a joke. It would have been an excellent alternative. Now they are stuck with the brownshirts who act as if they weren't ever Kos Kops themselves.
KosKopianism is beyond the techniques used to physically drive people off of domains. It is about how they shout down others, how they bully people into acceptance of the mob mentality they want adhered.
There are all types of fakes on the internet. It's role-playing for pay for a lot of them. FSZ is about the fake, cool people. But they are nasty. They never heard of live and let live. I bet none of them ever stuck up for Cindy Sheehan. I see them as controlled opposition.
p.s. I've never voted Republican. Probably never will.
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Now that Dave is gone my heart just isn't in it. I really miss him so much. I just loved the guy for what he did and how he did it. FSZ has become a bore and dkos just isn't worth the energy to click and go thru the diaries to read a good one. I love Cindy too and three cheers for her leaving the kos the way she did. They were horrible to her. And they were nasty to Obama and good on him for not coming back. He saw clearly after 2 diaries along with their nasty comments. Have you ever read mine when Altemeyer and John Dean came on. Kos never even put in a polite appearance. The comments are wonderful and everyone behaved. There were a lot of people a friend sent over that I have never seen before or since. It's a good read. He is sending me his latest book on his research into sex practices of college students.
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Thanks for the tips. I'll check out your and Obama's diaries.
I hear you on how tough it is to continue with Dave gone.
It's very sad how the DailyKos evolved. Sure it always had its problems and has been exposed time and time again.
Dave brought a fresh approach to it, and thankfully the lies spread about him are transparent. Thankfully people like Bouldin and Morrill are now known to be as nasty as Houle. Now it is known that it is a hate site. And I don't care if that is O'Reilly's phrase. That's whats wrong with simplistic us versus them. We're supposed to support DailyKos because Bill O'Reilly attacks it? If we only had a fair shake, true progressives would have really been able to come up with something wonderful with the internet. It looks like we'll just have to go with pockets of awareness.
The Kos downfall makes me think that was the plan the whole way. Like cointelpro. Round up as many good people as possible. Give them hope. Then smash it all into pieces.
I guess we can relate to each other and Dave and everyone else who has been banned for no good reason. It's one thing for racists and total nutjob spammers to be given the heave-ho. It's quite another to experience it for oneself. I think it comes down to anyone left of center to peacenik will have to walk on eggshells if they want to survive at the DailyKos. And who would want to make that type of sacrifice. We are better than them.
Maybe someday we or someone should go to a Kos convention with a video camera and
confront these people Dave style. Then blast youtube, other video outlets and continue to out fake progressives who I sincerely believe do more damage than the rightwingers.
Yeah, Cindy Sheehan, what a beautiful woman.
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