A Question Of Ethics
Was it right to out Michael J Fingerit? You bet.
Is outing generally wrong and morally reprehensible? You bet.
Are there exceptions to outing a person? You bet.
Is one of those exceptions when a person outs you and/or your family because of comments you make on a blog like Daily Kos? You bet.
Is one of those exceptions when the person has outed 4 other people at Daily Kos? You bet?
Is one of those exceptions when the person goes online investigating and researching people's family tree based on a screen name to determine if someone is a "troll" and then posting that info? You bet.
It is a question of ethics. Some of us have different lines. These are my lines. 99.99% of all people will never meet the threshold in my book to warrant an outing. But there are those other .01%. If you want to post stuff about me, you will get it thrown back in your face. Post RL info about me and expect the same.
Now when I make mistakes I hone up to them and try to make amends. Mr. Fingerit's on the other hand is unapologetic and lacks conscience. His last shred of credibility just got torn to shreds today. Tonight's the night I sleep well. Given his online enemies all over the place, I wonder how long it will be until his quotes from UGOG become the hot topic in courtroom cafeterias or CLE classes? It's over Michael, best advice to you is put the shovel down, end your "career" blogging tonight, and try to make amends for your wrongs.
Oh and I accept your apology hamburglar. Let's move on.
Is outing generally wrong and morally reprehensible? You bet.
Are there exceptions to outing a person? You bet.
Is one of those exceptions when a person outs you and/or your family because of comments you make on a blog like Daily Kos? You bet.
Is one of those exceptions when the person has outed 4 other people at Daily Kos? You bet?
Is one of those exceptions when the person goes online investigating and researching people's family tree based on a screen name to determine if someone is a "troll" and then posting that info? You bet.
It is a question of ethics. Some of us have different lines. These are my lines. 99.99% of all people will never meet the threshold in my book to warrant an outing. But there are those other .01%. If you want to post stuff about me, you will get it thrown back in your face. Post RL info about me and expect the same.
Now when I make mistakes I hone up to them and try to make amends. Mr. Fingerit's on the other hand is unapologetic and lacks conscience. His last shred of credibility just got torn to shreds today. Tonight's the night I sleep well. Given his online enemies all over the place, I wonder how long it will be until his quotes from UGOG become the hot topic in courtroom cafeterias or CLE classes? It's over Michael, best advice to you is put the shovel down, end your "career" blogging tonight, and try to make amends for your wrongs.
Oh and I accept your apology hamburglar. Let's move on.
Adding more to your discussion which I'm following:
1. The standard for outing a private citizen is much higher than that of a political operative or public figure.
2. Outings should be rare. Other than certain members of ugog, there is not a single person at Daily Kos who should be outed.
Now I understand people have different lines.
some say no outings no matter what.
some would have a more liberal standard of outings than mine.
Whatever position you choose, be consistent. That's why I lost respect for Jack although if he would delete the comments and delete PInche's link and the references to someone else's last name per my email, I'll gain some back.
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Dave, I ask you this. Was this anything more than a revenge outting? What does this accomplish? Yes, his name is presumably out there, so is yours, so is mine. Where does it go from here?
I am honestly curious what you hope to accomplish from this. He's not the big time NYC politico that you thought, so publicly shaming him won't work. It does not prove the link between dKos and the money (which was a link you could have pursued instead of this one). What good does it do?
DO you think people will stop troll rating? Do you think no one else will get banned at dKos?
It is a futile effort, Dave. The admin the condones it. Maybe it is time to focus your energies where they may do some good. God knows, you got lots of energy :).
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All fair questions.
1. It's not my place to put your name out there or other people's real names out there absent the rarest of exceptions which I've addressed. I won't link to it, won't make coy references to it, etc... I'm not in the outing business and I respect people's privacy absent the rarest of circumstances.
2. You are correct, it does NOT prove the link with DailyKos and the money concerning protection of screen names so let me retract that part now as well. Unlike some in the blogosphere I do believe in honesty. So the story, which has many good parts to it, does not have all I initially thought it did. It is what it is. I lost about ten percent of my story because of my mistake. Notwithstanding my original sin, I must go wherever the truth/evidence takes me. Some might have tried to dig in, obviously to come up with the real name having been convinced about 29 hours ago that I had it right (with multiple good faith reasons why) only to turn out wrong I think indicates to you or anyone else that I took the matter VERY seriously in ensuring that justice was done.
As for the garbage at Dkos, it will continue of course. That's not my concern, their rank and ratings will continue to drop and they are done. Of course Kos enjoys it.
As for my energies, yes I need to be doing other things more often. I am extremely upset with myself that I came within a 2 minute walk to the post office of almost making a mistake of garguantuum proportions. I am upset with myself for making the initial mistake. I am upset with myself for other reasons as well.
As for the story as it is NOW, it's accurate. Certainly it's not what I initially thought it was going to be but that should not detract from what it is now. People can "Finger It" accordingly.
Hopefully, Fingerit and others at Daily Kos who think it is okay to out people and investigate their real life info and post it to their buddies who then misuse it will have 2nd thoughts. Actually I hope they have only 1 thought - Don't do it unless you want your name out there as well.
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You raise another ethical point - The point of "names being out there." This too is a good conversation to have.
Yes my name is "out there" as is yours and many others but put that aside.
Let's take me - If my name was out there in an article, as it is, then linking to it at a website has the same effect as an outing. The point being that nobody is looking for it unless you give it to them. I find this wrong 99.99% of the time.
For example I think Pager is an angry, dishonest, delusional nutcase but has she ever outed me or others? No. Do I know her real name and does she know mine? Yes, we've communicated before and she's even revealed to me who she works for. Would I reveal to it or link to it? NO.
But I could be a snake, put up a few google hits, link to her and then claim, "Oh well she's out there, see here's google." Would I do that? NO.
When Flaw linked to Randy, provided info of me, link to User C's workplace and his name, etc... he outed people. When he's using info based on his investigations and then dropping clues little by little, if put together, leads a reader to a person's real name, we're dealing with outings.
I have consistently made it clear that outing is wrong 99.99% of the time absent certain rare exceptions which apply in Fingerit's case, Lloyd's case, some other crazy pig named Michael (rumor has it he's totally irrelevant now, temporary amnesia of his rarely read website and last name) as well as certain members of the Kostapo and the administrators who support them.
I can post and link to several other members of the Kostapo within 60 seconds based on info others have put on the web. Now if they weren't Kostapo this would be wrong but since they are Kostapo, I reserve the right to do so and it would not be wrong if I did.
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"Being Served"
Yes given I saw two places link to the initial false story and given that you knew at the time it was "under review" and that you now know I have fully retracted the initial story and the story as printed now stands, it is YOUR obligation not to republish it at your site. Since you now know that info to be false, you would put yourself at risk just as, had I failed to immediately remove such info and make the correction in equal and in this case much stronger terms with more time on my front page than the printing of the initial story, I too would have been in a bad position legally on that point.
Let's keep the innocent people out of this. If you want to report that a blogger named Davefromqueens initially f**ked up a key point, that's true. Did I eventually get it right? You bet.
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